It is there
under the December 7, 2003 link. Interesting that you did not see it.
I have pasted it below.
WorldPeace.
In a message dated 12/8/2003 10:48:58 PM Central America Standard Ti,
Jstephencoffman5@cs.com writes:
Thank you for the reply. I am having trouble finding the replies at
www.presbyterians-r-us.com.
Stephen
I have been reading your website after learning of you through the news (your
unsuccessful race for mayor).
>
My entry in the mayor's race was to call attention to WorldPeace, to make people
think about WorldPeace. Truth is that I would never do well as the head of
any bureaucracy political or otherwise.
What
caught my attention was the controversy surrounding the Heights Presbyterian
Church. I have never been to that particular church and I do not think
that I know any of the members your listed. My interest was due in large
part with the controversy about Gene Robinson (the "gay" clergy of
another church). I too, believe that some churches have abandoned God and
Jesus for humanitarian purposes.
In following your considerable effort to expose the alleged corruption, I have
noted some questions that I have about your evidence.
It appears that this controversy deals in a large part with the Independence
Heights, Inc. and that you do not agree with the way it was set up.
>
It is a simple matter really. The Book of Order is the rule book for the
operation of the Presbyterian Church USA. There is a procedure for
proceeding with a project like the Independence Heights. It was not
followed by the minister. In fact less than a handful of members of the
church knew about the project until ten months after the initial paperwork was
signed. When there is that much secrecy, you can bet there is corruption
involved.
> By the way, Delgatto, the minister, is leaving on February 14, 2003, and
one of the main corruptors and trouble makers at the church, Patty Ellis, left
about a month ago.
Please
correct me if I am mistaken about anything. Some of the points maybe seem
insignificant, but as a Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) (National Association of
Fraud Examiners out of Austin, TX) since 1993, I know that it is the seemingly
insignificant items that make or break a case.
If I may submit the following (I realize you are busy and appreciate the efforts
that responding may take):
1. On your website (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm) you
state that, "In the law, there can be no contract until there is
consideration (money paid)."
However, I find that under Texas Contract law that, "Promises to exchange
money, goods, or services are forms of consideration. All parties in an
agreement must give consideration in order to create a contract, but courts
typically do not make a determination about the adequacy of the consideration
unless there is evidence of some type of wrongdoing by the party benefiting most
from the contract." (http://www.weblocator.com/attorney/tx/law/b02.html)
> I agree. But I do not think it is relevant here. No
consideration of any kind was given by the church until after the Presbytery's
Administrative Commission took over in February 2003. There is a question
about what exactly the Diane Springer money was. The intent was to
obligate the church but I am not sure that money did obligate the church.
It obligated Diane Springer and the conspirators but not the church in my
opinion.
If I understand the author of this site (and other sources) correctly, the mere
promises to exchange money, goods or services are a form of consideration and
that the actual exchange of money is not required. For example, if I hired
you to cut the grass in my yard and provided you with a promissory note, and you
agreed, would there be a binding contract even if the promissory note were
worthless?
> I agree. But again not relevant to this fact pattern.
2. In evaluating the evidence that you have presented, I must evaluate you.
I will not get into the disbarment issues, as I am not an attorney and do not
feel qualified to judge you or the Bar Association.
> The disbarment is extremely complex because I did things to make sure that
I could challenge the grievance process and potentially shut it down. I
would say that is what has shocked the Supreme Court; the fact that I was laying
the predicates and preserving error for almost three years. I was playing
chess when the State Bar was playing checkers. They seriously
underestimated me and what I was doing. Truth is that they still don't
really get it and neither does the presiding judge in the case.
However, I am also a veteran who is proud of my service and am displeased
whenever anyone claims to be a veteran and is not or whenever a veteran
"overstates" their service.
On your website (www.johnworldpeace.com) you posted information about your
military service and that of your father and sons. You should be very
proud of your father and your sons' service to this country. You should
also be proud of your service to this country.
However, your statement, "When America called during the Vietnam Era, I
reported for duty. By the grace of God, after a year of training as an
infantry sergeant for Vietnam, I was sent to the Southern European Task Force (SETAF)
inVicenza, Italy." bothers me for some reason. I was also received my
draft notice (June 5, 1972). This was also during the Vietnam Era.
After basic training and advance training as a 13E (Artillery Fire Direction
Control) I "re-enlisted" for four years to guarantee assignment to the
101st Airborne (which fortunately (even though I wanted to go to Vietnam) was
recalled from Vietnam and returned to Fort Campbell, KY).
What bothers me about your statement is that "after a year of training as
an infantry sergeant…" did I miss out of something? I received high
marks on my evaluations, I was the second in my class during AIT, and the
officers all appeared to like me. But I did not make sergeant (E-5) until
almost two years later. And I never received "a year of
training" as a sergeant. Did you enter the service as an E-5
sergeant? Did you REALLY receive specialized training for one year?
I know a little bit about the infantry as I provided the artillery support for
different infantry units at Fort Campbell and in Germany (3rd Infantry
Division). I even provided the artillery testing for the Infantry Badge
during 1976-77 in Germany.
None of my friends who were in the infantry and who did make sergeant received a
year's training to be a sergeant. Nor did they know of anyone who did.
I do not doubt you, I just do not understand. May I ask where you took
this "year of training as an infantry sergeant?"
> I was trained in the infantry from October 1970 to September 1971. In
June 1971, I was officially promoted to sergeant. So I was not in a
sergeant school for a year but was trained in the infantry for a year with the
end result of becoming a sergeant.
> Here it is. I was drafted in October 1970, and sent to Ft. Polk
Louisiana for basic training. About half my company was college graduates
who had finally lost their deferments. I graduated from the University of
Houston in August 1970. I had signed up for Marine Corp OCS in the summer
of 1970 but was rejected because they were only taking engineers and I was a
political science major. Two weeks after I was drafted, the Marines called
and said they had a place for me in March 1971. I refused to discharge
from the Army and sit at home for another five months.
After basic training (8 weeks) I was sent to infantry training at North Fort
Polk (Tigerland at that time). 2000 guys a week were graduated and sent to
Vietnam after three weeks leave. Right after Christmas 1970 they asked for
volunteers to go to NCO school at Fort Benning Georgia. It was a school
set up in 1967 to graduate about 165 infantry sergeants to go to Vietnam every
two weeks. My wife was pregnant so I volunteered in order to stay
stateside until September instead of shipping out at the end of March for
Vietnam. NCO school meant Vietnam period.
I was accepted. I arrived at Ft. Benning in March or April 1971 and
immediately was advanced to sergeant's pay. I went from E-3 to E-5 if I
remember correctly. I did not get the actual increase in rank until I
graduated from NCO School in June 1971. I trained at Ft. Benning for 12 weeks
and then had a choice to volunteer for airborne and or special forces. If
I went airborne, I would be shipped to Ft. Brag afterwards and the same thing if
I went to special forces. As it turned out all my NCO buddies that went
airborne Ranger came back to Ft Hood, Texas and never left the states.
After NCO school, I was sent back to Ft Polk to act as an assistant drill
sergeant for a 12 week cycle of Advanced Infantry Training. This was part
of the 24 week NCO program.
In September 1971, I reported to Ft. Dix, New Jersey and was told that I was not
going to Vietnam but was going to Europe. they sent me to Vicenza, Italy.
In early, 1972, Nixon began winding down the Vietnam war and I got a five month
early out. I was discharged in May 1972. So I was drafted, made
sergeant in six months, went to Italy where my wife and I lived on the economy
and I got out five months early thanks to tricky Dick Nixon. My DD214
verifies all of this. I guess that I could put that on the internet. If
you have questions, I am sure others do as well.
3. I am sorry this is out of order. You state, "1) On May 25, 2001,
Charlie Windham, signed a HUD commitment to the Independence Heights Project, as
trustee for Heights Presbyterian Church. (Ex "A")" (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm),
but I can not find that exhibit attached to that electronic document.
Could you provide it please?
> I will try to post it shortly.
4. You also state, "The Project had not been approved by Presbytery, nor
the session nor the congregation." And "2) In February 2002, this
project came to the attention of the session for the first time." But
do not cite any evidence. Where can I find this evidence?
> There was a session meeting and the minutes of that meeting talk about the
project. The minutes do not say it was the first time it came up. But it
was.
5. "On Monday, April 15, 2002, an employee of HUD came to the church and
discussed the project but refused to elaborate on the financial obligations that
the church would incur." Who was this HUD employee?
>
I do not know, but could find out with some research. You see the judge
stopped the case before I could get this in discovery. Next week I will be
taking the judge up on appeal if she refuses to restart the lawsuit. I
would have done this before now but I have been too busy working to shut down
the State Bar grievance process.
I
believe April 15, 2002, was a Monday. Was this at night or during the day?
Was this HUD person there on "Official Business?" Did you
personally attend or is this hearsay?
> Night. I was not there. Again it was in the minutes of the
session meeting. And others told me about it. It is not disputed.
6. "On April 19, 2002, WorldPeace had a meeting with Joe Delgatto, Charlie
Windham, Tom Lord, Linda Holder, Lord's employee, and Bob Casey, Jr., Lord's
attorney who works at Bracewell Patterson. The meeting was held at the church.
At that meeting, it was admitted that contrary to what Delgatto and Windham had
been telling the congregation, there were not four
sponsors of the project but only Heights Presbyterian Church." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm).
As a CFE the posting of times are important. Also you did not state who
"admitted" that there was only one sponsor of the project.
>
No one admitted it. The subsequent paperwork in the project showed that
two of the original four churches who were involved in two other similiar
projects in the area dropped out. So in the end there was only one church
until the Administrative Commission finalized Heights Presbyterian Church
involvement in March 2003, and then there was two.
Do you recall who it was? As an attorney, I would hope that you
would understand the value of know who did what and when.
> Again the documents show that all four churches signed off on the initial
paperwork in May 2001. A few months later, All Saints Catholic Church
dropped out and six months later St Andrews Episcopal dropped out. But
Delgatto told everyone that all four were in the project and the project was a
done deal. He announced this from the pulpit several times and in several
session meetings. It was a lie. I have recordings if I am not
mistaken of some of his pulpit admissions. I began taping each Sunday
service with audio and video because of all the lies that were being told.
7. "On April 21, 2002, after worship service, there was an illegal special
executive session meeting (because the reason for the session meeting had not
been stated the prior Sunday and because the meeting was not a single purpose
meeting). At this meeting there was a vote to continue sponsorship of the
Independence Heights Project." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm).
Not being a Presbyterian, could you cite the actual law or rule that such a
"special executive session meeting" violated?
> I will find it. But the Presbyterian Book of Order incorporates
Robert's Rules of Order and Robert's Rules of Order states that special session
meetings must be called on particular issues only. In other words, when
you call a special session meeting you have to state what it is for. This
was not done. It was just said that a special session meeting would be
held. Some of the session members were not even informed of the meeting
until the day of the meeting.
8. "On April 24, 2002, Delgatto wrote a letter to the congregation stating
that: "The scriptures tell us that Satan is the 'father of lies and the
author of deception.' This lawsuit, therefore, comes from the mouth of Hell
itself." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm) Could you
attach this letter?
>
I will find it and post it.
Also
could you explain the relevance of Delgatto's opinion of the lawsuit to the
accusations? He, like you, is entitled to his opinions. Do
Presbyterians believe in Satan and Hell? I know some churches soft pedal
those (real in my opinion) concepts.
> Delgatto was trying to use his position as a church bureaucrat to shut me
up and discredit me. He tried to get the congregation behind him based on
his position in the church. That was his goal. It did not work because
everyone knew him to be a notorious liar.
> Presbyterians are not fundamentalist Christians but they do believe in
Heaven and Hell.
9. "The problem here is that Joe and the rest of the conspirators in this
matter continue to say that Heights Presbyterian Church has not paid any money
toward the project." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
Where and how many times have they allegedly said this?
>
Almost every week and several times a week. The conspirators were on a campaign
to deny the truth of what they had done and by their numbers make people believe
I was lying. But I wasn't..
And
is there evidence to the contrary?
> What they did was in October 2002, they apparently gave one of the
conspirators $5,000 to donate directly to the Independence Heights, Inc.
This stopped the session from having to vote on paying the money to the project.
There is a letter from the President of IH, Inc. about this contribution.
The minister of Heights Christian Church was the President. Things got too
hot for her in January 2003, and she would not sign off on the final papers and
retired from the ministry.
10. "This is a lie in the sense that they got Diane Springer to pay the
money directly to the project on behalf of the church so they would not have to
deal with the money coming into the church and then getting approval of the
session to pay the money into the project." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
But apparently "Diane Springer, wrote a personal check to the Independence
Heights, Inc." and not to the Presbyterian Church. Forgive my
confusion, but isn't the Independence Heights, Inc. a legal separate entity from
the Heights Presbyterian Church?
> It was set up secretly by the conspirators in March 2002 without the
knowledge of the session or the congregation. Four of the conspirators were on
the incorporation papers.
11. "Big mistake, Diane is going to be added to the lawsuit because
whatever monies that Heights Presbyterian Church has to pay to get out of this
project will be due because of the money that Diane paid into the project for
the benefit of Heights Church." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
Please clarify how a member of a church obligates the church to something by
merely writing a "personal check" to another organization (that maybe
connected to the church)?
> Originally the four churches were to contribute $2,500 each. When two
dropped out it required each remaining church, Heights Presbyterian and Heights
Christian to pay $5,000 each. The congregation of Heights Presbyterian was
against the project. So the conspirators had Diane Springer write a personal
check directly to the IH, Inc. to attempt to further obligate Heights
Presbyterian church without having to inform the congregation that the church
was being obligated to the project.
I am sorry that I do not follow your line of reasoning here. And
this appears to be a significant aspect of your allegations.
> I hope I have made this clear. You see they now say the church was
never out any money. But that is not true because the church is obligated
for the monthly operating deficit on the project for the next forty years.
12. "And further, the fact that Diane paid these monies was not known until
Ms. Feiler, the newly hired attorney for the church, filed some pleadings on
December 2, 2002, in the lawsuit to stop WorldPeace from attending the
congregational meeting on December 8, 2002." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
If it were her personal funds, why should she have to make it known?
> It would be like your neighbor paying $5,000 to a fraudulently deal in your
name. He paid the money but you were obligated. See? This is
what Diane Springer did. She paid the money to obligate the congregation
without the congregation knowing what was going on.
You seem to imply that this proves a point. I fail to follow your
reasoning.
> Do you see now?
13. "…Rev. Belinda Windam (no kin to Charlie Windham I am told)…"
(http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm) Was there a "typo"
here or is one name "Windam" and the other name "Windham?"
> Both are named Windham but not related to each other.
I must confess, this type of comment (which you liberally pepper your
evidence) distracts from your allegations and tends to lessens your
creditability to the average reader. I know my request for just the facts
may remove some of the "fun" of this investigation, but any good
lawyer (of which I am sure you are) knows this is not appropriate behavior in
the presentation of the evidence. If some had done the same to you (i.e.
John WorldPeace - no kin to "Whirled Peas" I am told) I am confident
that you would not feel that it was appropriate. Please stick to the facts
and leave out the unneeded remarks.
> It was a typo. period. I did not catch it.
14. "(and who had been asked to leave the ministry of St. Giles
Presbyterian Church)" (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
Evidence or heresy?
> Fact. But she was allowed to leave. Just like Delgatto.
The Presbytery covered his bad acts in exchange for him resigning on his own
initiative effective this coming February. Belinda was sent packing.
St Giles is a liberal church and Belinda Windham is a fascist. Ergo, bye
bye.
15. "It has been said that Dr. Feiler had a relationship with one of the
members of the congregation but I have not verified this yet. Dr. Feiler from
what I can tell is no longer a Presbyterian minister." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
John, please refrain from "school yard gossip" it seriously distracts
from your issues and discredits you. If you have evidence of any material
FACTS, please post them.
> This is true. I believe I have Fieler's divorce papers and if I
remember correctly they mention the husband's adultery. He cannot be found
on the list of Presbyterian Ministers on the internet.
16. "The important thing to know here is that before coming to Heights
Presbyterian Church, Patty Ellis was a member of St Phillip Presbyterian Church.
So Delgatto presented Diane Feiler to the session because Patty told him
to." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm) I am sorry if I
am "short" with you, but to put in heresy like this is unbecoming of a
professional. Do you have ANY evidence that "Patty told him to?"
> I do not have a tape recording of the conversation. Patty Ellis came
from St. Phillip, Fieler came from St. Phillip, Jeanie Flowers who is on the
Adminsitrative Commission is a member of St Phillip, and of the four or five
other committees appointed by Presbytery, all but one have a member from St.
Phillip on them. Someone was calling the shots and packing these St.
Phillip people into the committees. None of them were around until Patty
came to the church. There are 106 chuches in the Presbytery of New
Covenant. So why were so many people pulled from St. Phillip?
17. "In addition, Ms. Feiler has filed suit on behalf of Patty Ellis
against WorldPeace and Joyce Wolter for defamation, and intentional infliction
of emotional distress." (http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
After reading your presentations with unsubstantiated hearsay, I can understand
why someone would sue you.
> In Texas, nothing written in a lawsuit or in regards to a lawsuit can be
used to support a cause of action for slander. So the point is that she
had no cause of action, and as an attorney knew it.
> Further, you have to understand that I do have the evidence but I am not
presently my case to a judge but to the rank and file Presbyterians in the
United States most of whom would not understand the hearsay argument.
18. "So what should have happened before Windham obligated the church
to the Independence Heights project was that the session should have requested
the Presbytery to approve the project, the Presbytery should have approved the
project and informed the session, and the session should have called a
congregational meeting, the congregation should have approved the project and
then the trustee should have signed the documents committing the church to the
project. Of course none of this happened." http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com/h021208a.htm)
What are the penalties, if any for an unapproved obligation?
> That is the problem. There are no penalties in the church for
violating the Book of Order. That is why it is a joke. The problem
is that the Presbytery cites it when it is to their benefit and ignores it when
it is not.
Could you cite it for me?
> The penalty comes in the civil lawsuit only.
I think 18 questions are enough for now. You may post this on your
website, if you do not alter the points.
I am J. Stephen Coffman.
Thank you for your consideration and please take these suggestions in the vein
that they have been presented. Maybe I am too "picky" as to
details and the separation of facts from hearsay, but that is due to my training
and experience.
> I welcome you thoughts. Ask away.
WorldPeace
Thank you
for the reply and I am sorry I was not able to find it on the website.
Knowing that you are busy, I will try to keep this short.
>It appears that this controversy deals in a large part with the Independence
Heights, Inc. and that you do not agree with the way it was set up.<<JSC
>It
is a simple matter really. The Book of Order is the rule book for the operation
of the Presbyterian Church USA. There is a procedure for proceeding with a
project like the Independence Heights. It was not followed by the minister. In
fact less than a handful of members of the church knew about the project until
ten months after the initial paperwork was signed. When there is that much
secrecy, you can bet there is corruption involved.
<
So this is clearly not a criminal matter. As a civil matter, we must deal
with the preponderance of the evidence. You agree in that:
"I
agree. But I do not think it is relevant here. No consideration of any kind was
given by the church until after the Presbytery's Administrative Commission took
over in February 2003. There is a question about what exactly the Diane Springer
money was. The intent was to obligate the church but I am not sure that money
did obligate the church. It obligated Diane Springer and the conspirators but
not the church in my opinion."
So the Heights Presbyterian Church (HPC) did not give any consideration until
February 2003 when it was "approved" by the Presbytery's
Administrative Commission. Does this Commission have the authority to
obligate HPC?
I agree with you that Diane Springer's donation did not obligate the HPC.
I do not see how the donation of Diane Springer's $5,000.00 obligated "the
conspirators" since it was her money. Do you have any admissible
evidence that it was not her money? I understand that you may question
"what exactly the Diane Springer money was" but I do not see any
admissible evidence that it was anything other than private money donated by a
private individual. I believe this is an important aspect of the issue.
Please post any evidence to the contrary. And forgive me if, due to my
nature, training, and experience, I insist on evidence and not hearsay or
speculation.
As for your military career, I too, took basic training at North Fort Polk, but
did not start until August 1972. I imagine we could share some stories
about our experiences there. Did you go though the simulated POW camp?
I understand now that you did not really mean that you had a year long NCO
training course. I guess you just simplified it for those non-military
types. You (and I) have the right to be proud of our military service.
By the way, I stated in the Reserve afterwards and am getting ready to
"re-up" next week.
As for the HUD employee conducting a presentation after hours, I know one of the
HUD investigators from that time period and will query them about the situation.
You state: "At that meeting, it was admitted that contrary to what Delgatto
and Windham had been telling the congregation, there were not four sponsors of
the project but only Heights Presbyterian Church."
Then you state, "No
one admitted it."
You have to be careful as this could be held up by your distractors as an
example of a contradiction.
With your indulgence, I will write more later.
Stephen
I have a few
more moments.
I hope you find my questions and comments helpful in your quest for truth and
justice. Sometimes, we get too personally involved to see how our position
looks to outsiders. For example, my understanding of the situation at HPC
may not be as clear as you since I do not know the personalities that are
involved and all the details. And while I like your website format
sometimes I get confused about the different tangients that spring from a
discussion.
Could you for clarity sake provide me with a simplified narrative of the
situation (similiar to a criminal syllabus). This could be as simple as a
paragraph or two. May I request that you leave out speculations or
unsubstantuated rumors. As with a criminal syllabus (forgive my spelling,
I can not seem to find the "Spell checker.) please cite the laws or rules
violated and reference the documentary evidence. Do not worry about
linking all the documents at this time. With your permission, I will
specify the individual documents (if any) that I may need.
And please, John, as with a proper criminal syllabus, please keep the
personalities and unprofessional comments out as it only gives others
nonrelevant issues with which to attack you.
Thanking you in advance.
A parting thought, as to your attempts to get your membership reinstated.
If your weekly donations to HPC were made by personal checks and HPC cashed
them, then that would boister your case. I.e. they will take your money,
but not allow you to join. If they refuse to cash your checks and you
still want to support the church, then send the money to the national
organization with a specification that it is to go to HPC. But if HPC
cashes your checks and still refuses to admit you I think it would tend to
discredit their position.
Stephen
In a message
dated 12/11/2003 8:38:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, JohnWorldPeace@aol.com
writes:
"The most revealing part of the tape is where Walter Ellis says "and
WE will not take it off until this mess is resolved." John
That appears to be a matter of interpretation especially if that was the most
revealing part of the tape. I could see it going either way. Isn't
vandalism a crime? Do you think that the tape would "convict him
beyond a reasonable doubt?"
Has the pentagram been removed?
I will check the website for responses to my other questions.
Stephen
I know that
you are busy, as I am, but I was concerned since you had not responded to my
questions and comments.
By the way, I noted your December 12, 2002 letter to the Heights Corporation
concerning the private donation to that corporation by Diana (the lady that left
for Africa) where you put the corporation on notice that the private donation
did not obligate the HPC.
Were you engaged by the church to be their attorney of record?!
Expectantly,
Stephen
John writes:
>Now a question for you. Was your father, grandfather, uncle, etc the
General
>Presbyter of New Covenant prior to Mike Cole? That Coffman also spells
his
>name the same as you as well as uses the initial of his first name and the
full
>spelling of his middle name. No it does not prove it beyond a
resonable
>doubt or even a preponderence of the evidence but it sure looks like there
is a
>connection. What are the odds that you would not be related?
>
>Rumor has it that Carol Parker had many meetings with that Coffman and
>delivered to him many documents regarding the happenings at Heights and
Delgatto in
>particular. The rumor is that he politely listened, took all the
documents
>and did nothing. Nothing personal. Just a question.
>
>WorldPeace
I am a Hoosier born and raised. I lived in Southern Indiana Northern
Kentucky (Louisville) my entire life until the military called. My father
(Raymond Coffman) was a house painter and an auto mechanic. I remember him
going to church maybe three times while he was alive (he died in 1972).
His father (Robert Coffman) died in 1959. He is buried in louisville
(there is a "find a grave" website that carries information about him
on the internet).
I have an Uncle in Florida (Ralph Coffman) who ran a Nursing Home and a couple
of other Uncles that are either retired farmers or current farmers. I have
a brother (Raymond Coffman)works in Orlando for NASA. My younger brother
(Joseph Coffman)is a Baptist that is an outside salesman in Jeffersonville, IN.
I was the first Coffman (of my line of Coffmans) born out of Kentucky for
several generations. And I was born one mile north of the Ohio River in
Indiana.
The "Coffman" (spelled with a "C") family has been in the
USA since the Revolutionary war (when David Kaufman changed his name to David
Coffman to avoid being confused with the Hussians.).
Probably more than you needed or wanted to know. I do not know of any of
my family that has ever been anything other than Baptists or nonbelievers.
Stephen
Was there any stipulations on the Fakes' bequest?
If not, could they not do anything they wanted with it?
I had a similiar situation where a water distict (MUD) in Harris County had a
board member that using the voluntary security contributions to pay her husband
for "computer work," however were no computers! I proved that
she was taking the money.
However, the DA said without any stipulations, there was no crime. The MUD
attorney said without any agreements there was no tort.
I can understand the bitter taste about how things do not seem right to you in a
church that you and your family helped build, but I am not seeing any basis for
criminal or civil sucess.
In the MUD's Security Committee, the matter was only resolved with the
dissolution of the committee. That would probably not be a good resolution
for a church.
I spoke of this to a former HUD employee. He was not aware of any problems
with the project.
Stephen
I do not think that the failure to remove vandalism is an indicator of who put
it on the wall. I see many instances of vandalism on private and public
walls. I do not think that indicates civilly that the owner or elected
leader put the vandalism on the property.
What do you think is the purpose of the pentagram and it's uncompleted caption?
Do you think that someone was trying to make others think that you had put it
there? Especially since you have denounced the HPC as being allegedly
influenced by Satan?
Or could it be that the reason the group that makes up the "WE" does
not want it removed is because they think that you actually put it up there and
they felt that by leaving it up, it would eventually be revealed who put it up?
Who finally attempted to remove it?
Have there been any other vandalism in the area or similiar nature?
Stephen
John writes, "Questions are the spice of life."
I most wholeheartedly agree. I guess that is why I like asking them.
It is kind of like being a cook of sorts.
Stephen (Also named after the martyr)
JSC>>If not, could they not do anything they wanted with it?<<
John >> They being the congregation yes. They being a few corruptors
no. Again Delgatto, (the cat, a familiar of many spooks (dark souls))
testified in open court that he tried to obligate HPC to the IHP without the
knowledge of the session, the congregation or the Presbytery as is required by
the Book of Order of the PCUSA.<<
Question: Has the majority of the congregation denounced the IHP?
John>> Question is why does a man try to obligate a church to a $4 million
ghetto retirement home in secret? He had no authority or consent or
mandate to act unilaterally. So why did he do it? The old wisdom is
"when things don't make sense, follow the money."<<
As a Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) that is exactly what I do. I follow
the money. However, I may have missed your response, but I still do not
see a legally binding connection between the "private" donation of
$5,000.00 and the obligation of the HPC. I realize that some may believe
that is a connection, but we are dealing with the law here.
JOhn >> I believe there was a cause of action for "breach of
fiduciary duty". If there were other acts, a crime may have been
committed. The DA is the gate keeper and just because a DA does not want
to pursue a particular case does not mean that the case is not viable.<<
True, but has the HPC spent any of it's money on this project?
John> All we ever wanted was an accounting. There has been stonewalling
for over a year and a half. All we asked was to show us all the documents
and the accounting records for the last six years that Delgatto has been
minister. All those things have been denied us to date. But that
will change on January 16th when we go into pretrial.<<
Is there any provision in any of the Presbyterian rules or laws that obligate
the church leaders to provide an accounting?
John>> The committee is the Administrative Commission who was appointed by
Lynn Johnson, the Stated Clerk of Presbytery. We have no authority to
dissolve the Commission. Ten people who do not belong to the church are in
charge. They are the ones who finalized the IHP documents and they are the
ones who have submitted a bogus audit that is off by $100,000 in the last two
years. They are the ones who refuse to audit the first three years of
Delgatto's tenure. Further, the church secretary of 20 years said that the
first thing that Delgatto asked when he arrived was whether or not the church
really had $1 million in assets.<
A new Pastor (or Church leader) asking about a church's assets seems a prudent
thing to do. Is the Commission of 10 authorized by the main church?
Stephen
In a message
dated 12/22/03 5:36:14 PM Central Standard Time, JohnWorldPeace@aol.com writes:
The Administrative Commission used that donation to say there was an
obligation. I have said there is none and the matter has yet to go to
court. This is what they are hanging their hat on. The $5,000 was
paid by Diane Springer and the church was not out any money. But the
truth is that the church is out the operating deficit for the next 40 years.
Pardon me if I am missing something, but I still do not see how the HPC is
obligated. Did anyone with authority from HPC sign anything?
For example, you wrote: "Again Delgatto, (the cat, a familiar of many
spooks (dark souls)) testified in open court that he tried to obligate HPC to
the IHP without the knowledge of the session, the congregation or the Presbytery
as is required by the Book of Order of the PCUSA."
"Tried" is the word that bothers me. Did he succeed?
Aside, why do you call him "the cat, a familiar of many spooks (dark
souls)?" Is this just an expression that you do not like him or is
there evidence of this allegation? (I personally believe in the Devil and
evil spirits so while not a legal issue, is an important issue. If you
could prove this, than I would personally hold it in higher regard than a civil
tort).
You write in my response to my question about has the majority of the
congregation denounced the IHP: "There has been no official vote but
the answer is yes."
How many people are in the congregation and was there a poll?
John,
Thank you for your answering my questions. However, based on my
experience, the information that you provided, and my independent research I am
confident that you do not have a criminal case. I also do not believe
(unless I am missing something) you will have a successful civil case.
Thank you again. If I could leave you with a word or two of advice, it
would be to refrain from the personal comments that do not have any real basis
or connection to the issues at hand. These comments tend to distract the
reader from the real issues.
May you and your family have a Christmas filled with the real spirit of the
season.
Stephen
I
will respond more fully later.
I have Walter Ellis on tape to another member of the congregation strongly
indicating that he and others put the pentagram on the church.
The most revealing part of the tape is where Walter Ellis says "and WE
will not take it off until this mess is resolved."
WE was a word that just sort of slipped into the conversation. It is not a
statement a Christian would make about a pentagram on the side of the church.
In fact, if it were a Baptist Church, it would not have been on there for ten
minutes after discovery.
But more importantly, why would he say WE will not remove it. We is a
strong indication that WE put it there and WE are not going to take it off.
That is what I have. The whole taped conversation is about 45 minutes if I
remember correctly. The person Walter was talking to gave me the tape.
The call by Walter to the member was unsolicited and I did not solicit the tape
from the member.
WorldPeace
I
have just been real busy and then I took a two day break. I will try to
answer you later this evening.
WorldPeace
In a message
dated 12/13/2003 3:52:35 PM Central America Standard Ti, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
Subj: Did I do something wrong?
Date: 12/13/2003 3:52:35 PM Central America Standard Ti
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John
WorldPeace
I know that you are busy, as I am, but I was concerned since you had not
responded to my questions and comments.
By the way, I noted your December 12, 2002 letter to the Heights Corporation
concerning the private donation to that corporation by Diana (the lady that
left for Africa) where you put the corporation on notice that the private
donation did not obligate the HPC.
Were you engaged by the church to be their attorney of record?!
No. I spent the first 18 years of my life at Heights. When my mother
asked for my help because of the corruption, I responded by getting involved. I
tried to have a meeting with Lord, Windham, and Delgatto. They all lied to
me. Being an attorney and an accountant, I knew what they were telling me
were lies. I also intuitively knew they were lying.
There has yet to be a full accounting for the Independence Heights Project or
the $1,200,000 from the Fakes bequest. The lies continue.
The last thing these people want to have is the truth getting out. But I
have a little surprise coming for all of them next month.
WorldPeace
In a message
dated 12/12/2003 12:07:40 AM Central America Standard T, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
Subj: Re: Pentagram on HPC
Date: 12/12/2003 12:07:40 AM Central America Standard T
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John
WorldPeace
In a message dated 12/11/2003 8:38:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, JohnWorldPeace@aol.com
writes:
"The most revealing part of the tape is where Walter Ellis says
"and WE will not take it off until this mess is resolved."
John
That appears to be a matter of interpretation especially if that was the most
revealing part of the tape. I could see it going either way.
Alone it would not convict him of a crime but it would be enough to get a
verdict against him in the civil court. He used the word we because he
thinks in terms of we. But I think you are missing the point. Why
would he be agaisnt removing the Pentagram regardless?
Isn't vandalism a crime?
Yes.
Do you think that the tape would "convict him beyond a
reasonable
doubt?"
No, but it would by a "preponderance of the evidence" the civil court
standard.
Has the pentagram been removed?
Not completely. The paint has been absorbed deep into the brick. It
is a permanent stain on the church. And my web page will be a permanent
stain on those who put it there.
Now a question for you. Was your father, grandfather, uncle, etc the
General Presbyter of New Covenant prior to Mike Cole? That Coffman also
spells his name the same as you as well as uses the initial of his first name
and the full spelling of his middle name. No it does not prove it beyond a
resonable doubt or even a preponderence of the evidence but it sure looks like
there is a connection. What are the odds that you would not be related?
Rumor has it that Carol Parker had many meetings with that Coffman and delivered
to him many documents regarding the happenings at Heights and Delgatto in
particular. The rumor is that he politely listened, took all the documents
and did nothing. Nothing personal. Just a question.
WorldPeace
In a message
dated 12/19/2003 9:58:17 AM Central America Standard Ti, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
Subj: Re: Pentagram on HPC
Date: 12/19/2003 9:58:17 AM Central America Standard Ti
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John
WorldPeace
John writes:
>Now a question for you. Was your father, grandfather, uncle, etc the
General
>Presbyter of New Covenant prior to Mike Cole? That Coffman also
spells his
>name the same as you as well as uses the initial of his first name and the
full
>spelling of his middle name. No it does not prove it beyond a
resonable
>doubt or even a preponderence of the evidence but it sure looks like there
is a
>connection. What are the odds that you would not be related?
>
>Rumor has it that Carol Parker had many meetings with that Coffman and
>delivered to him many documents regarding the happenings at Heights and
Delgatto in
>particular. The rumor is that he politely listened, took all the
documents
>and did nothing. Nothing personal. Just a question.
>
>WorldPeace
I am a Hoosier born and raised. I lived in Southern Indiana Northern
Kentucky (Louisville) my entire life until the military called. My
father (Raymond Coffman) was a house painter and an auto mechanic. I
remember him going to church maybe three times while he was alive (he died in
1972). His father (Robert Coffman) died in 1959. He is buried in
louisville (there is a "find a grave" website that carries
information about him on the internet).
I have an Uncle in Florida (Ralph Coffman) who ran a Nursing Home and a couple
of other Uncles that are either retired farmers or current farmers. I
have a brother (Raymond Coffman)works in Orlando for NASA. My younger
brother (Joseph Coffman)is a Baptist that is an outside salesman in
Jeffersonville, IN.
I was the first Coffman (of my line of Coffmans) born out of Kentucky for
several generations. And I was born one mile north of the Ohio River in
Indiana.
The "Coffman" (spelled with a "C") family has been in the
USA since the Revolutionary war (when David Kaufman changed his name to David
Coffman to avoid being confused with the Hussians.).
Probably more than you needed or wanted to know. I do not know of any of
my family that has ever been anything other than Baptists or nonbelievers.
Stephen
I always find geneology to be interesting. But I find other things like
coincidences to be also very interesting.
I ask myself what are the odds that J. Stephen Coffman, an individual who out of
the blue is interested in my battles with the church of my youth. I then
realize that the ex-General Presbyter of the Presbytery of New Covenant goes by
the name of T. Stewart Coffman.
Now in my experience this coincidence is for the purpose of informing me that
speaking with you has more significance than most others or something more basic
in that you are to connect with another Coffman branch of the family. Time
will tell. I also find it interesting that both of you do not use your
first name and that both of your second names begin with "Ste".
Another minor connection is that I was going to name my first child Stephen
after the first Christian martyr but when that first child was a female, I named
her Stephanie.
I also find it interesting that your first name begins with a J as does mine but
I feel like yours is something like Josiah or Joshua. I also find it
interesting that your screen name ends in a 5 which is the number of man and the
number most closely associated with me in numerology and represents a focus on
mankind.
Well I am sure that the above will give a skeptic like yourself something to
think about even if just for a second. Coming from Baptist and atheists or
agnostics and being born in Kentucky, I would expect a fundamental religionist
or a non believer reacting to the irrational embracing of stories of Jesus that
are taught as fact but in truth are stories to make a point with a bit of fact
mixed in. Or as Joseph Campbell said "The problem with God is that he
believes he is real" making a Taoist point that the God that can be defined
in not the real God; saying this while knowing that just a few understand what
he is talking about.
The point is that there is a dynamic to life that most people ignore
intentionally or out of ignorance or for some other purpose or reason. But
that dynamic in life does exist and when one learns to be aware (awakened as the
Buddha advised) then things take on a different perspective and random events
become something more as it becomes obvious that we are in communication with
much more than the vast majority of human beings on this planet are capable of
conceiving at this time in our evolution.
All that being said, for the most part, I communicate with one and all and what
you are or are not matters little. The length and breath of this
conversation is up to you because every question that I get allows me to test my
concept of this reality. Questions are the spice of life.
WorldPeace
In a message
dated 12/19/2003 10:08:26 AM Central America Standard T, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
Subj: RE: Response
Date: 12/19/2003 10:08:26 AM Central America Standard T
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John
WorldPeace
Was there any stipulations on the Fakes' bequest?
> No
If not, could they not do anything they wanted with it?
> They being the congregation yes. They being a few corruptors no.
Again Delgatto, (the cat, a familiar of many spooks (dark souls)) testified in
open court that he tried to obligate HPC to the IHP without the knowledge of the
session, the congregation or the Presbytery as is required by the Book of Order
of the PCUSA.
> Question is why does a man try to obligate a church to a $4 million ghetto
retirement home in secret? He had no authority or consent or mandate to
act unilaterally. So why did he do it? The old wisdom is "when
things don't make sense, follow the money."
I had a similiar situation where a water distict (MUD) in Harris County had a
board member that using the voluntary security contributions to pay her
husband for "computer work," however were no computers! I
proved that she was taking the money.
However, the DA said without any stipulations, there was no crime. The
MUD attorney said without any agreements there was no tort.
> I believe there was a cause of action for "breach of fiduciary
duty". If there were other acts, a crime may have been committed.
The DA is the gate keeper and just because a DA does not want to pursue a
particular case does not mean that the case is not viable.
I can understand the bitter taste about how things do not seem right to you in
a church that you and your family helped build, but I am not seeing any basis
for criminal or civil sucess.
> All we ever wanted was an accounting. There has been stonewalling for
over a year and a half. All we asked was to show us all the documents and
the accounting records for the last six years that Delgatto has been minister.
All those things have been denied us to date. But that will change on
January 16th when we go into pretrial.
In the MUD's Security Committee, the matter was only resolved with the
dissolution of the committee. That would probably not be a good
resolution for a church.
> The committee is the Administrative Commission who was appointed by Lynn
Johnson, the Stated Clerk of Presbytery. We have no authority to dissolve
the Commission. Ten people who do not belong to the church are in charge.
They are the ones who finalized the IHP documents and they are the ones who have
submitted a bogus audit that is off by $100,000 in the last two years.
They are the ones who refuse to audit the first three years of Delgatto's
tenure. Further, the church secretary of 20 years said that the first
thing that Delgatto asked when he arrived was whether or not the church really
had $1 million in assets.
I spoke of this to a former HUD employee. He was not aware of any
problems with the project.
Stephen
> This is not a HUD project. This is the PCUSA. This is a church
and allegedly Christ's church. Further, there is a Book of Rules that was
not followed by Delgatto, Windham and the Ellis's.
> There is a belief by some that the Ellis's who came from St. Phillip
Presbyterian Church about three years ago )and the fact that virtually every
committee appointed in the last year by Lynn Johnson included a member from St.
Phillip) seems to indicate that there is a conspiracy to close HPC.
You see this is a little church of about 30 active seniors who are for the most
part passive. However, HPC did sponsor two prior HUD retirement projects
about thirty years ago.
> Well after forty years those projects can be converted to profitable
ventures. In other words, in about about ten years or less those projects can be
disconnected from HUD and turned into private residences and condos and so on.
Those projects are worth about $40 million in todays market and HPC owns 25%.
So you see, there is a lot more at stake here that you realize. There is a
connection between Delgatto and Presbytery and the Ellis's and St. Phillip
Presbyterian church. And the Ellis's are dark souls and maybe full blown
Satanist. There are those who truly worship Satan and practice black
magic. I know this for a fact. Again, you can ignore this battle
between good and evil, yin and yang, etc, that never ends if you like but know
that it is real.
>The Bible speaks of these things in metaphors but there is a reality to
them. Believe me, there is a darkness that pervades human society.
Being a skeptic you know that most things fall out along a bell shaped curve
with extremes on both ends. So logic should tell you that for every Mother
Teresa there is a black witch. The Tao says the energy of the Infinitie
Potential (God) is neutral and can be used for any purpose. And so it is.
There is a resident evil at HPC and it with that darkness that I am presently
engaged in battle.
WorldPeace
In a message
dated 12/19/2003 10:18:07 AM Central America Standard T, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
Subj: Re: Pentagram on HPC part 2
Date: 12/19/2003 10:18:07 AM Central America Standard T
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John
WorldPeace
I do not think that the failure to remove vandalism is an indicator of who put
it on the wall. I see many instances of vandalism on private and public
walls. I do not think that indicates civilly that the owner or elected
leader put the vandalism on the property.
> There is no other mark on the church. No other gang markings.
Just this pentagram.
What do you think is the purpose of the pentagram and it's uncompleted
caption?
> The obvious is the most hidden. It was a designation that HPC was in
the hands of the Satanists.
Do you think that someone was trying to make others think that you had put it
there?
> People who know me on any level, know that is not something I would do.
That was just a cover story. A red herring. The Satanist felt
confident that they were going to close the church after they stole the assets.
They just got a little too sure of themselves. I am the fly in the
ointment. I got in their way.
Especially since you have denounced the HPC as being allegedly influenced by
Satan?
> There is a resident evil. But it is leaving. HPC will live on
after the purging.
Or could it be that the reason the group that makes up the "WE" does
not want it removed is because they think that you actually put it up there
and they felt that by leaving it up, it would eventually be revealed who put
it up?
> Not. You cannot be a Christian because you have a secular approach to
a core issue of Christianity, Christ's dominion over Satan. A Christian
who understood the pentagram would find it intolerable if not an abomination to
have that mark on their church. It would not be preserved as evidence.
Pictures would preserve it. But the sign would be immediately purged from
the church.
Who finally attempted to remove it?
> Several different members of the congregation.
Have there been any other vandalism in the area or similiar nature?
> None on the church. There are a few gang symbols but the Heights has
a long history of being run by the Heights Rats (I believe that is what they
call themselves.) They are motorcyclist from the fifties and White not
Hispanic. A sort of Hell's angels group. I do not know how active
they are but the Heights is not a barrio area. In fact, the whole area is
being rebuilt and there are some new homes in there that are worth close to a
million dollars. You don't see a lot of gang grafitti in the Heights.
Stephen
> WorldPeace
Thought you
might be interested in this guy. I do not know who he is. His screen
name indicates he is the Texas Devil. He has been writing for a while.
He wants me to let him take me to new heights in politics. He is not
stupid, but a little crazy I think and probably not dangerous. But he may
be Walter Ellis, I do not know.
These people have come and gone over the eight years I have had a web presence.
Regardless, I think he believes his own bullshit but my gut says he is not a
danger at this point. I respond to him when I feel like it and when he
asks a coherent question. I find most people interesting, evil or
otherwise. But some are dangerous. Some are capable of murder.
It is the ones that do not talk that one should worry about; that is if one is
prone to worry.
WorldPeace
In a message dated 12/20/2003 12:14:41 AM Central America Standard T,
texaslucifero@excite.com writes:
Subj: Re: worldpeace
Date: 12/20/2003 12:14:41 AM Central America Standard T
From: texaslucifero@XXXXXX
To: JohnWorldPeace@aol.com
Sent from the Internet
ha. more and more like a politician every day. i missed your e-mail. the fax
machine shredded it. have my people call your people. the dog ate my homework.
say what you will, worldpiece, but you dodge the issues like the rest of them.
claim to be different, but you fudge the issues as much as the next. maybe i
should have more confidence in you, but, then again, maybe i was right the
last time.
in the beginning,
LUCIFERO
p.s. your time, i believe it was the early morning of monday november 10th.
but i'm sure you don't keep records back that far back, do you now?
In a
message dated 12/21/03 5:08:33 PM Central Standard Time, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
<< Subj: Re: Response - WorldPeace
Date: 12/21/03 5:08:33 PM Central Standard Time
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John WorldPeace
JSC>>If not, could they not do anything they wanted with it?<<
John >> They being the congregation yes. They being a few corruptors
no. Again Delgatto, (the cat, a familiar of many spooks (dark souls))
testified in open court that he tried to obligate HPC to the IHP without the
knowledge of the session, the congregation or the Presbytery as is required by
the Book of Order of the PCUSA.<<
Question: Has the majority of the congregation denounced the IHP?
** There has been no official vote but the answer is yes. If the congregation
were for it then an open vote would have been called long ago and this matter
would have been resolved. Delgatto and then the Administrative Commission
have refused to call a vote. Before the Administrative Commission came in
February 2003, two congregational meetings were canceled because I was going to
call for a vote.
John>> Question is why does a man try to obligate a church to a $4 million
ghetto retirement home in secret? He had no authority or consent or
mandate to act unilaterally. So why did he do it? The old wisdom is
"when things don't make sense, follow the money."<<
As a Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) that is exactly what I do. I follow
the money. However, I may have missed your response, but I still do not
see a legally binding connection between the "private" donation of
$5,000.00 and the obligation of the HPC. I realize that some may believe
that is a connection, but we are dealing with the law here.
** The Administrative Commission used that donation to say there was an
obligation. I have said there is none and the matter has yet to go to
court. This is what they are hanging their hat on. The $5,000 was
paid by Diane Springer and the church was not out any money. But the truth
is that the church is out the operating deficit for the next 40 years.
JOhn >> I believe there was a cause of action for "breach of
fiduciary duty". If there were other acts, a crime may have been
committed. The DA is the gate keeper and just because a DA does not want
to pursue a particular case does not mean that the case is not viable.<<
True, but has the HPC spent any of it's money on this project?
** We do not know because there has been no audit. The compilation
that was done for the last two years was off by $100,000 and none of the actual
checks have been produced.
John> All we ever wanted was an accounting. There has been stonewalling
for over a year and a half. All we asked was to show us all the documents
and the accounting records for the last six years that Delgatto has been
minister. All those things have been denied us to date. But that
will change on January 16th when we go into pretrial.<<
Is there any provision in any of the Presbyterian rules or laws that obligate
the church leaders to provide an accounting?
*** Rule G-10.0401(d) A full review of all books and records relating to
finances once each year by a public accountant or public accounting firm or a
committee of members versed in accounting procedures.
** Just another Rule from the Book of Order they ignore.
John>> The committee is the Administrative Commission who was appointed by
Lynn Johnson, the Stated Clerk of Presbytery. We have no authority to
dissolve the Commission. Ten people who do not belong to the church are in
charge. They are the ones who finalized the IHP documents and they are the
ones who have submitted a bogus audit that is off by $100,000 in the last two
years. They are the ones who refuse to audit the first three years of
Delgatto's tenure. Further, the church secretary of 20 years said that the
first thing that Delgatto asked when he arrived was whether or not the church
really had $1 million in assets.<
A new Pastor (or Church leader) asking about a church's assets seems a prudent
thing to do. Is the Commission of 10 authorized by the main church?
** They were appointed by the next up bureaucratic level above the church,
The Presbytery. The church has no say.
Stephen
>>
WorldPeace
In a message
dated 12/22/2003 8:16:51 PM Central America Standard Ti, Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
writes:
Subj: Re: Response - WorldPeace
Date: 12/22/2003 8:16:51 PM Central America Standard Ti
From: Jstephencoffman5@cs.com
To: John
WorldPeace
In a message dated 12/22/03 5:36:14 PM Central Standard Time, JohnWorldPeace@aol.com
writes:
The Administrative Commission used that donation to say there was an
obligation. I have said there is none and the matter has yet to go to
court. This is what they are hanging their hat on. The $5,000
was paid by Diane Springer and the church was not out any money. But
the truth is that the church is out the operating deficit for the next 40
years.
Pardon me if I am missing something, but I still do not see how the HPC is
obligated. Did anyone with authority from HPC sign anything?
> Delgatto continued to sign documents even after I filed the lawsuit.
The majority of the documents had to do with renewing the option to purchase the
land on which the project was to be built. Land that is on the tax rolls
at $34,000 but which was being bought for $240,000.
The last document that Delgatto signed was in January 2003, which bought the
land. He then resigned his office in the non profit Independence Heights
Project. Only a very few people, the corruptors knew he was doing this.
On February 8th he and eight of the 12 session members, the other four were not
informed, appeared at the quarterly Presbytery meeting and asked that an
Administrative Commisssion be formed to take over the church. This was
illegally done because again the Book of Order requires that the matter be
investigated and all session members spoken to. Then a recommendation was to be
made to Presbytery. Instead a Commission was immediately formed.
Monday the 10th there was a court date. At that time, the lawyer for the
Presbytery stepped up and asked the court to abate the lawsuit and give the
Commission time to work. The court granted the abatement. But at
that time I put Delgatto on the stand and that is when he said that he did not
have the permission of the session, the congregation or the Presbytery to do
anything with the Independence Heights Project.
A month later, the Administrative Commission, who was in charge, ratified the
acts of Delgatto and supposedly committed the congregation without approval of
the session or a vote from the congregation.
Ground was broke on the project and it is almost built. I filed several
motions for show cause hearings to stop the project which the judge refused to
hear. All these will be heard next month in pretrial.
So it appears the project is proceeding. None of the documents are
available because the judge continues her abatement. Yes, it looks rigged
and corrupt.
There will have to be final documents signed when the building is complete and
before it can be occupied.
For example, you wrote: "Again Delgatto, (the cat, a familiar of many
spooks (dark souls)) testified in open court that he tried to obligate HPC to
the IHP without the knowledge of the session, the congregation or the
Presbytery as is required by the Book of Order of the PCUSA."
"Tried" is the word that bothers me. Did he succeed?
> I do not know and the judge refuses to allow the case to go forward so I
can proceed with discovery to get these documents.
Aside, why do you call him "the cat, a familiar of many spooks (dark
souls)?" Is this just an expression that you do not like him or is
there evidence of this allegation?
> Many psychics consider cats familiars. A familiar is an entity that
can change forms. This is not literal but in the metaphysical literature,
mostly the witchcraft writings.
(I personally believe in the Devil and evil spirits so while not a legal
issue, is an
important
issue. If you could prove this, than I would personally hold it in higher
regard than a civil tort).
I am just saying that this is another coincidence, that he does dark deeds and
was born with the name Delgatto. You know if you are metaphysically aware
you don't pass everything off as coincidence. This gets into some very
techical and deep spiritual questions and philosophies, beyond this
conversation. The most obvious is the most hidden. The pentagram on
the side of the church was not a random act of vandalism, the most obvious, but
a mark deliberately placed on the side of the church claiming it for Satan.
You write in my response to my question about has the majority of the
congregation denounced the IHP: "There has been no official vote
but the answer is yes."
How many people are in the congregation and was there a poll?
> About sixty active members. There was never a vote. I believe
from several unofficial counts we made that the vote would be about 60/35
against the project. Other non active members would have come in to vote
on the project had there been a vote.
WorldPeace
The civil case is already successful. Patty and Walter Ellis are gone,
Delgatto is leaving in seven weeks. Art Greer is dead. Presbytery is
begging for money. Charlie Windham no longer comes to church after five decades
of every Sunday attendance. The elections for the session last month
replaced three session members that were supporting the conspiracy with three
that have not. Two more session members will be replaced next month with
our people. So come the end of next month the goods guys will be back in
control.
So it is hard to say that the lawsuit was not successful. It has been very
successful. Everything from this point on is gravy and icing.
Thanks for your input but the truth is that what is on the internet is about 5%
of what is there and that is about 20% of what is yet to be accumulated.
Just keep watching over the next months and year and you will see that in the
end there will be a total removal of the corruption and evil.
WorldPeace
http://www.presbyterians-r-us.com
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earth if we do not include everyone (all races, all nations, all religions, both
sexes) in our vision of Peace?
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